Talk:Pecan

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Common names of trees[edit]

Dear MPF, I see no reason to capitalize common names of trees (pecan, hickory, walnut), nor do I see why one wouldn't place scientific names inside parentheses in the following example:

The Pecan Carya illinoensis is a large hickory ...

Since you overruled my edits, I assume this is somehow important to you. I certainly won't get into an editing war, but I do believe that the above style is quirky and unprofessional. In any reputable British, American, or Canadian encyclopedia, the style would be:

The pecan (Carya illinoensis) is a large hickory... --An American copy editor

I second these concern over inappropriate capitalization and not placing scientific names inside parentheses. I'm also quite frankly confused as to why the most recent edit (dealing with pronounciation) was rolled-back and labeled "vandalism" by user MPF. The previous editor had it exactly right... "pecan" is most often pronounced "puh-KAHN" in northern U.S. states, and "PEE-can" in the South. The article, as is currently written, has it completely backwards.
I admire the easygoing nature of "an American copy editor", and share his/her desire not to get into an 'editing war'. However, I do plan to correct the capitalization, scientific name presentation, and pronounciation issues... after allowing a couple of days for any discussion in this forum. If MPF or anyone else really feels strongly about these points, please speak up now.
(FOLLOW-UP NOTE:) After doing some more searching online, it seems that the pronouncation differences are more complex than just a "north vs. south" issue. There actually ARE southerners (mostly in Texas) who pronounce it "puh-KAHN", and northerners who say "PEE-can". However, in other areas (such as Georgia), the stereotypes are the opposite. I propose having the article simply mention the two variations, without associating a particular region to either of them.
SteveAtlanta
Caps for species common names are widely used on wikipedia; see the Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life archives for the reasons. My reason for reverting the edits by 137.118.152.22 were that this contribution merely consisted of swapping 'southern' and 'northern' between the two pronunciations, making it the opposite of what it had stated previously, without explanation; this looked to me like childish vandalism. I think your making it non-regional is a great improvement. Is "puh-KAHN" a real pronunciation that is actually used?? I'd be very surprised if anyone really puts in that heavy aspiration before the consonants; trying to say 'h-k' and 'hn' would sound decidedly like a bad attack of bronchitis. - MPF 11:15, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I visited that Wiki talk page, and there really doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus for the standard you're promoting. A couple of people with experiece editing scientific articles were directly opposed to the idea of capitalizing common names. The only other person who really "took your side" was basically saying "I don't much care one way or the other", and acknowledged that they don't normally capitalize common names either. Honestly, I don't really care about this enough to edit-war over it, but if you MUST use this silly-looking convention, at least do so consistently... don't capitalize in some places and not in others. SteveAtlanta.
As a native Texan, I can assure you "puh-KAHN" is widely used...although I qualify by saying that particular use of CAPS distorts the actual inflection, as there is only a SLIGHT accent on the second syllable. As pecans are pretty much native to the South, I remember a couple of times having amicable debates with others in the region over the "correct" pronunciation. What we figured out was that in the Atlantic coast states South, (Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia) it is "pee-can", while beginning somewhere in Alabama and extending west into Texas, it is "puh-Kahn" And as we say in Texas, a "pee-can" is something one carries in their pickup truck for beer-induced emergencies LOL TexasReb 17:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Coming from the Deep South I can affirm that most natives of Texas, Louisiania, and Mississippi say p'kawn. (Note that I've avoided using the phonetic syntax with the letter "h" to avoid the goofy observations regarding aspirated h's by reader MPF.) For those who cannot understand either my, or the previous attempt at phoneticization, would it help to know the first vowel is a simple schwa and the second is the IPA "ɔ"? At any rate, I wanted to add that I've frequently heard the PEE-can usage on the eastern seaboard, from NC to CT, where I spent a few years of my worklife. Still, most my my life was in Texas and I agree wholeheartedly with "texasreb" that native Texans say puh cahn'. I appreciate the efforts here on the talk page to accurately portray both "correct" pronunciations. N0w8st8s (talk) 17:14, 9 October 2012 (UTC)n0w8st8s
Coming from the Deep South as well, I know of at least three very common pronunciations. There's "PEE-can" (long-e and stress on the first syllable and more of an orotund pronunciation). There's "puh-KAHN" (stress on second syllable and pronounced more in the middle to back of the mouth). And there's "puh-KAWN" which is a regional pronunciation usually found in the deep South, such as New Orleans or Charleston, SC. Personally, I always use the middle style, but can assure you that I've heard all three within the past year. 2601:140:8302:E260:9AC:D1B5:72AA:52FA (talk) 15:19, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Re: desserts-[edit]

pecan pie, anyone?

As in, where is the associated article in the Wikicookbook? User_Talk:Michael_Reiter

More images??[edit]

Hey, I'm pretty sure the "pecan" in the Everman Park picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EvermanPark.JPG) is something more like a post oak. Confirmation, anyone? I don't know Abilene very well and the picture ain't so great. Lawiseman (talk) 03:54, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to contribute the following image showing how pecan nuts grow to the article: http://www.flickr.com/photos/78223339@N00/15025997/

Should I, or should the amount of images per article be kept to a minimum?

I already added it. If it is not acceptable, you can always change it back. :-)
Excellent pic, thanks! I've added the picture source to the image page at wiki commons, with the correct licence tag as given on the site - MPF 15:25, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
You actually changed the image to a less permissive license by doing that. As the photographer (and thus the copyright holder) I have the right to release the image under multiple licenses, which I did. So I'll switch back the license to GFDL. PMG 21:15Z 2005-06-09
Ooops, sorry, I didn't realise you were the photographer, I thought you'd just got it from the website - MPF 19:12, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Sould someone upload an upclose image of pecan tree leaves? Danielbot 19:34, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I wish someone would. I need to identify some trees...

Pecan flowers[edit]

I just uploaded another image of pecan flowers from the same tree as the pecan nuts. Should the caption say that the two images are from the same tree? --Pmg 18:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it particularly relevant or notable that they're from the same tree, so I think it's unnecessary. Thanks for the effort and contribution of the images; keep up the good work. AUTiger ʃ talk/work 19:54, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

vandalism?[edit]

"Someone please change the picture on the left. It is a picture of pistachios, not pecans.". Whatver it is, it is about to be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.254.11.37 (talk) 01:37, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

taste description question[edit]

Can anyone describe how pecans taste?:) In comparison to walnuts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.131.137.50 (talk) 15:33, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Less bitter than walnuts. Rich and buttery like the article says. Lawiseman (talk) 03:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Mealier in texture and softer, as though the nut were just barely held together pieces. A much warmer and slightly sweet flavor. 2601:140:8302:E260:9AC:D1B5:72AA:52FA (talk) 15:22, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

pecan harvesting question[edit]

When are the pecan ready how do you know i have 12 trees and they are loaded and some are falling. this is Theresa Smith from Chross Plains tx.

History[edit]

Um, dude.....this article is WAY incorrect. The first pecan trees were planted by Native Americans long before Europeans ever set foot in the Western hemisphere, as such they were domesticated no more recently than most other crops of New World origin, e.g. maize, vanilla, chocolate, sunflowers, etc. This horrendously erroneous assertion ought to be fixed in a jiffy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.101.126 (talk) 02:52, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

pecans in pie[edit]

Does anyone know why the pecans actually rise during baking of a pie? 173.23.131.102 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:38, 27 November 2009 (UTC).

I would guess it's because the nutmeat is relatively light, and the corn syrup gets liquid enough to let them during baking. Lawiseman (talk) 03:52, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Pekanový strom [IPA:piːˌkɑn] (Carya illinoinensis nebo illinoensis) je druhem bílých ořechů, původně z Amerického středozápadu USA od jižní Ijovy, Ilinojse a Indiány východně k západnímu Kentaky, Severní Karolíně, Jižní Karolíně a západnímu Tenesí, jižně skrz Džordžii, Alabamu, Misisipiho, Lujzijanu, Texas, Oklahomu, Arkansase a Floridu, a západně do Nového Mexika.

V Mexiku z Koahvily jižně do Chaliska and Věrokříže. Slovo "Pekan" je algonkinského původu (druh indiánů), znamenající ořech vyžadující louskáček (v indiánském životě byl louskáčkem většinou kámen) k rozštípnutí. Zdroj: Wickipedie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.16.105.3 (talk) 11:34, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Pekanový strom je rozlehlý, vyrůstající do výše 20–40 m (66–130 stop), zřídka až k 44 m (140 stop);[2] vyšší stromy k 50–55 m (160–180 stop) se hledají, ale není ověřena jejich jsoucnost. Šíře koruny stromu bývá 12–23 m (39–75 stop) s průměrem až 2 m (6,6). 10 letý jedinec dorůstá 5 m (16 stop). Listy jsou střídavé, 30–45 cm (12–18 palců) dlouhé, s 9–17 palisty, délka každého palistu je 5–12 cm (2–4,7 palce) a šířka 2–6 cm (0,79–2,4 palce). Květy jsou větrosprašné, se samčími a samiččími jehnědami na jednom stromě. Samčí jehnědy jsou 18 cm (7,1 palce) dlouhé, samiččí jehnědy jsou malé, tvoří hrozen 3 až 6 blizen.

Zdroj: Wickipedie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.16.105.3 (talk) 11:51, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Urban planting not recommended for allergy reasons. PMID 8194783[edit]

PMID 8194783

Waisel Y, Keynan N, Gil T, Tayar D, Bezerano A, Goldberg A, Geller-Bernstein C, Dolev Z, Tamir R, Levy I, et al.

[Allergic responses to date palm and pecan pollen in Israel]

[Article in Hebrew] Harefuah. 1994 Mar 15;126(6):305-10, 368. Tel Aviv University. Abstract

Date palm (Phoenix dactylifera) and pecan (Carya illinoensis) trees are commonly planted in Israel for fruit, for shade, or as ornamental plants. Pollen grains of both species are allergenic; however, the extent of exposure to such pollen and the incidence of allergic response have not been studied here. We therefore investigated skin-test responses to pollen extracts of 12 varieties of palm and 9 of pecan in 705 allergic patients living in 3 cities and 19 rural settlements. Sensitivity to the pollen extracts of both species was much higher among residents of rural than of urban communities. Moreover, there was a definite relationship between the abundance of these trees in a region and the incidence of skin responders to their pollen. Sensitivity was frequent in settlements rich in these 2 species, such as those with nearby commercial date or pecan plantations. In general, sensitivity to date pollen extracts was lower than to pecan. However, differences in skin responses to pollen extracts of various clones were substantiated. Air sampling revealed that pollen pollution decreased considerably with distance from the trees. At approximately 100 m from a source concentrations of airborne pollen were low. Since planting of male palm and pecan trees in population centers would increase pollen pollution, it should be avoided. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.61.217 (talk) 21:42, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Pecan trees release highly allergenic pollen grains that cause hay fever and asthma PMID 8729670[edit]

PMID 8729670

The importance of the pecan tree pollen in allergic manifestations. Clin Exp Allergy. 1996 Mar;26(3):323-9.

Rachmiel M, Verleger H, Waisel Y, Keynan N, Kivity S, Katz Y.

Pulmonary and Allergy Institute, 'Assaf-Harofeh' Medical Center, Zerifin, Israel.

...

CONCLUSION: Pecan tree releases highly allergenic pollen grains, which are correlated to the incidence of hay fever in the exposed population. The contribution of pecan tree pollen to the symptoms was highly significant after discounting olive and cypress trees that also pollinate in the spring. In children, the pecan tree constitutes a possible etiologic agent for the development of asthma. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.167.61.217 (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to separate Carya from Hickory[edit]

I've opened a discussion here like to propose that Hickory should be separated from Carya and Annamocarya. This would allow some text about the evolution of the genus Carya, which is currently on this species page, to be moved to a genus page. Such an arrangement would parallel, for example, the separation of Banana from Musa. Nadiatalent (talk) 13:58, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

pecan trees[edit]

What type of fertilizer should I use for trees and the best way to use it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.136.142.245 (talk) 23:30, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

America only?[edit]

Are pecans grown anywhere outside of the US and Northern Mexico? 109.246.254.186 (talk) 13:31, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes. See for example the Australian Pecan Growers Association. Nadiatalent (talk) 18:37, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes there is a smaller variety growing in Ontario, Algonquin territory. The Name PuhKhan came from the Algonquin language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.229.31 (talk) 02:58, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Growth of the tree?[edit]

Came here looking for basic info on the development of the pecan tree, specifically how many years it takes to reach maturity. Disappointed to find no info on this. 70.59.74.42 (talk) 00:07, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Spelling[edit]

The correct scientific name of the species is Carya illinoensis, not illinoiensis (spare i) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.100.116.136 (talk) 17:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it is spelled illinoinensis, as on the page. See The International Plant Names Index. Nadiatalent (talk) 18:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Pecan fruit: drupe or nut?[edit]

The article states that the pecan fruit is a drupe. Contrastingly, the sites on Hickory (Carya) and on Juglandaceae define the fruits as true nuts. References to the special fruit type tryma are confusing, as it is respectively called a drupe-like nut or nut-like drupe. 188.107.252.53 (talk) 09:19, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation[edit]

Some editors above were patting themselves on the back for growing recognition of regional differences in pronunciation but, nope, Wikipedia's WP:NOTADICTIONARY. If we were going to have a laundry list of pronunciations, they don't belong cluttering up the lead section as currently. You'd need to drop it down to a #Name or #Etymology section and provide a full explanation of who says it which way which proportion of the time in which dialects with WP:RELIABLESOURCES. Unsourced, unexplained lists of pronunciations belong at pecan's Wiktionary entry, if there. (The alternative is to provide all 6 pronunciations the OED mentions, along with at least three more regional variants off the top of my head, which really just creates UNHELPFUL CLUTTER.) — LlywelynII 12:20, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
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It would be nice to explain that some people believe that pronouncing pee-kahn is more proper than a can for urination.
With more modern plumbing access, that type of can is used less than in the past. Somitcw (talk) 09:07, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Peacan, Pecan,[edit]

Yes a pronunciation of peecan is incorrect. One e is puhkhan, Think peanut, Second vowel hard e, Not Can but Khan, think StarTrek. Algonquin word. There are Pecans in Algonquin territory, They are a smaller variety than what is found in what is now Georgia, Muskogee Territory. I was told years ago by a Cajun, that "a peecan was sumpthun you put up under yo bayed" Some would call that a Bedpan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.229.31 (talk) 02:55, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

There should be alternate pronounciations of pecan. "Puh-cahn" and "Pea-can." BTW, many in the South say it "Pea-can."
I can attest to both pronunciations being common in the Rio Grande valley of Texas and New Mexico, where lots of pecans are grown. We'd say "Texas chewy peecan pralines" even if we had a "pukahn" tree in the back yard. Dicklyon (talk) 04:34, 29 September 2020 (UTC)